Did anything change with the Piano Synthdef in 3.2?

Would it be useful if I sent a PR setting it back to the previous value? It would of course be another breaking change, but only compared to 3.2.0, not earlier versions, and at least it would be consistent with the other synths again.

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I think reverting the amp to how it was would be a good move :slight_smile:


Can y’all update here if anything changes? I will make this song using the 0.8 for now, and can go back and fix it later when it changes back

I’ve opened a PR here with a potential fix. It doesn’t behave identically to how it did before version 3.2.0, as I think there was a bug in the old behaviour (or maybe it was doing something I don’t understand), but it should have the same output volume (at least for velocities up to 0.25).

My PR was just merged, so the next release should have the default velocity back at 0.2, with the scaling factor of 4 on the output of the synth (instead of on the velocity parameter, which would have allowed setting out-of-range values before) so that the volume is back in sync with earlier versions.


Hmm. Not sure this is right yet.
try this on 3.2.1 beta

live_loop :test do
  8.times do
    synth :piano,note: n,release: 0.2#,vel: 0.6
    sleep 0.2
  8.times do
    synth :tri,note: n,release: 0.2
    sleep 0.2

The piano synth is incredibly quiet with the default vel opt =0.2
It needs to be much higher, or , if it is to remain there, then adjustments need to be made elsewhere in the synth definitiion.

Compare what it sounds like in version 3.1 or 3.2
Also uncomment the #,vel: 0.6 and see the difference… experiment with other values for the vel opt.

Oh no :frowning:
I’ve added a comment on your github issue, and I’ll look into it myself when I get some time.

Thanks emlyn. Needs sorting before 3.2.1 is released.

I think I’ve tracked down the problem. Changing vel doesn’t affect the volume linearly, so when it was reduced by a factor of 4, the signal had to be amplified by a much larger factor to compensate. This PR should fix it.

Thanks. I’ll try it out later today.

Applied the PR and it sounds much better. To my ear could possibly do with a tad more, but I think it is acceptable :as is: in the pr

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Thanks for taking a look, I just double checked and you’re right, it was still a bit quiet. I’ve bumped it up a bit more and pushed it again, does this sound better to you now?

I’ve noticed that removing the scaling from vel has also changed the timbre of the sound. I think it now sounds better - closer to a piano played “normally”. Before it was harsher, almost as if the string was being plucked.

I also found that not quite all synths have the same level - :dark_ambience is much quieter, and :hollow is also quite quiet. Would this be a good time to adjust them to match the other synths or is it better to avoid breaking changes? What do you think @samaaron? I’d be happy to make the changes (possibly porting them to SuperCollider at the same time) if you think it’s worth adjusting them.

Sounds better now you’ve upped the gain a bit. As regards other synths, I agree that one or two are rather soft. However, many people will have already written stuff employing the synths as they are, so I think it probably best to leave them alone… or may introduce new additional normailsed ones with a separarte name…maybe a -N suffix which the user could select as an alternative.
The Piano synth is a special case as it was louder before already.


hi everybody,

try today the 3.2.1 BETA 2 on windows 10 and the volume of the piano is weaker than on 3.2 on ubuntu.
Maybe it’s what you want but il i test the code of my last post “mixed” on v3.2 tomorrow, the tb303 is louder than the piano.

I think tb303 has always been louder than many synths in my experience. I compared the piano volume with that of the pluck synth as they are more comparable percussive instruments, rather than a sustained one like tb303.

However I’ve just tested 3.2.1beta against my own build and it looks as if the latest tweak may not be included,as my own build at the latest commit # 9c27ec is a bit louder.
I think the pr was modified, and perhaps Sam didn’t include the change.
maybe @samaaron will check this.

This is what I use to compare

live_loop :compare do
  8.times do
    synth :piano ,note: scale(:c4,:major).tick
    sleep 0.2
  8.times do
    synth :pluck ,note: scale(:c4,:major).tick
    sleep 0.2

this is what i get

github doesn’t help to post wav file to be read…

Question : would it be possible to upload sound into this forum ?

I used wget to download your file which worked. It is much quieter than the piano synth I get from the latest download from SP source, so I guess the windows build may have used an earlier version, or else something weird is happening.

I’ve just installed the windows 3.2.1beta and it sounds fine there. Are you sure youve got the right version? I found that because the url is so long that if I just clicked it it tended to download the previous version. I ended up downloading the msi it on my mac and transferring it across.

So yes the piano volume is good now with the beta 2.

But i’m not fan at all of its new sounding… I prefer the previous one more realistic imho
Would it be possible to make two versions : piano (the previous sound) and piano_**** (i suggest piano_reverb_too_much :slight_smile: )

The problem with the previous one, was that the velocity was internally multiplied by 4, so the default of 0.2 was actually 80% of the maximum, and anything over 0.25 was sending out of range values to the synth.

You can recreate the sound of the old one by using a vel of 0.8, and reducing the amplitude accordingly.

ok perfect i will try :slight_smile: thanks for your explanations.