# Microtonal musical systems **URL:** \ **Category:** Creations & Ideas\ **Created:** [May 5, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498 "2021-05-05T16:02:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gregeporter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/gregeporter/32/1277_2.png) [@gregeporter](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/gregeporter)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/1 "2021-05-05T16:02:26Z")
When playing a note with `play` you can provide the notes in a couple ways: `play C #the note name` or `play 60 #the key on the keyboard that corresponds to that note` I was looking through the wiki page for [Svara](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svara) and it has note names like M’a which corresponds to F#. Would it be possible to add the names of notes for other musical systems like in Indian Classical Music? ---
**Author:** ![hitsware](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@hitsware](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/hitsware)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2021, 2:09am UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/2 "2021-05-09T02:09:27Z")
```ruby doh = 60 ### any names you want re = 70 ### also allows for mi = 80 ### Indian microtuning skale = [doh,re,mi] for i in 0..2 play skale[i] sleep 1 end ``` ---
**Author:** ![gregeporter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/gregeporter/32/1277_2.png) [@gregeporter](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/gregeporter)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2021, 4:34am UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/3 "2021-05-09T04:34:48Z")
That would totally work for a session or a song but I was thinking making a more permanent change to the code base to allow for those additional names. I can’t seem to find where it would be though, thought my search felt a little superficial Update: Ok, I checked out the code and it looks like it might be in `app/server/ruby/lib/sonicpi/note.rb` further investigation commencing 😛 ---
**Author:** ![samaaron](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/samaaron/32/7_2.png) [@samaaron](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/samaaron)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2021, 9:15am UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/4 "2021-05-09T09:15:09Z")
> [@gregeporter](#): > > That would totally work for a session or a song but I was thinking making a more permanent change to the code base to allow for those additional names. Happy to consider proposals for changes. However, it’s important to note that the solfège method of education for music uses the terms `doh`, `re`, `mi`, etc to refer to the intervals on a scale - so definitely shouldn’t be hard-coded to specific MIDI numbers. Having said that, I do think there’s huge value in taking the same approach as the live coding system Ixi Lang took which is to allow people to work directly with scale intervals as that has been shown to make things simple and musical for beginners. So something like the following might make sense: ```ruby play :doh #=> plays the first note of the current scale (perhaps the default is C Major) ``` ```ruby use_scale :d, :minor play :doh #=> now plays :d ``` ```ruby use_scale :f, :major use_scale_intervals #=> let people use integers to refer to scale intervals play 1 #=> plays :f ``` ---
**Author:** ![gregeporter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/gregeporter/32/1277_2.png) [@gregeporter](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/gregeporter)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/5 "2021-05-09T13:10:19Z")
I see what you mean about how the intervals are translated in `notes.rb`: ```ruby NOTES_TO_INTERVALS = {cf: -1, CF: -1, Cf: -1, cF: -1, cb: -1, CB: -1, Cb: -1, cB: -1, c: 0, C: 0, cs: 1, CS: 1, cS: 1, Cs: 1, df: 1, DF: 1, Df: 1, dF: 1, db: 1, DB: 1, Db: 1, dB: 1, d: 2, D: 2, eb: 3, EB: 3, Eb: 3, eB: 3, ef: 3, EF: 3, Ef: 3, eF: 3, ds: 3, DS: 3, Ds: 3, dS: 3, e: 4, E: 4, fb: 4, FB: 4, Fb: 4, fB: 4, ff: 4, FF: 4, Ff: 4, fF: 4, f: 5, F: 5, es: 5, ES: 5, Es: 5, eS: 5, fs: 6, FS: 6, Fs: 6, fS: 6, gb: 6, GB: 6, Gb: 6, gB: 6, gf: 6, GF: 6, Gf: 6, gF: 6, g: 7, G: 7, gs: 8, GS: 8, Gs: 8, gS: 8, ab: 8, AB: 8, Ab: 8, aB: 8, af: 8, AF: 8, Af: 8, aF: 8, a: 9, A: 9, bb: 10, BB: 10, Bb: 10, bB: 10, bf: 10, BF: 10, Bf: 10, bF: 10, as: 10, AS: 10, As: 10, aS: 10, b: 11, B: 11, bs: 12, BS: 12, Bs: 12, bS: 12} INTERVALS_TO_NOTES = { 0 => :C, 1 => :Cs, 2 => :D, 3 => :Eb, 4 => :E, 5 => :F, 6 => :Fs, 7 => :G, 8 => :Ab, 9 => :A, 10 => :Bb, 11 => :B} DEFAULT_OCTAVE = 4 MIDI_NOTE_RE = /\A:?(([a-gA-G])([sSbBfF]?))([-]?[0-9]*)\Z/ ``` With that method, it seems like that is used for the purposes of Western music but maybe by allowing to play with the intervals then other systems could be used. The time between posting this and now, I did some reading and it seems like my perception of something like Indian classical music wasn’t right; there are still 12 intervals but I guess the starting point is different? I’ll do some more research 🙂 Thanks, you two! ---
**Author:** ![gregeporter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/gregeporter/32/1277_2.png) [@gregeporter](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/gregeporter)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/6 "2021-05-09T13:15:04Z")
Oh, and just to make sure I didn’t cause confusion. In terms of a permanent solution. I didn’t mean for something like Doh Re Me to be hardcoded, but something like one of the tables from that wiki page: ![notes](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/uploads/sonic_pi/original/2X/7/7c10648850f428161df32a9a9240dd71950a54ed.png) Where `Play Sa === Play C === Play 60` Cause I don’t think that’ll change any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![hitsware](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@hitsware](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/hitsware)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/7 "2021-05-09T20:39:14Z")
I ’ d be tempted to use numbers instead of note names … > **[Indian Tuning - Just Intonation](https://sitars-ragas-icm.blogspot.com/2010/09/indian-tuning-just-intonation.html)** > > When it comes to sitars you really don't want to be using a guitar tuner. Sitars, and a lot of Indian instruments, use something called Just... ---
**Author:** ![gregeporter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/gregeporter/32/1277_2.png) [@gregeporter](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/gregeporter)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/8 "2021-05-09T21:18:24Z")
I probably would too ---
**Author:** ![hitsware](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@hitsware](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/hitsware)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 1:44am UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/9 "2021-05-10T01:44:57Z")
Would you dare the ratios for a scale ? I’ve looked before and could never find the numbers … ---
**Author:** ![gregeporter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/gregeporter/32/1277_2.png) [@gregeporter](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/gregeporter)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 2:17am UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/10 "2021-05-10T02:17:12Z")
Hmm, I think the best I find at the moment would be in that wiki page under the section “Swaras in Carnatic music“ In that chart, it seems to say, given a base note, or Shadja, then the scale is built upon some number of semi tones. So, if I’m reading it correctly, maybe if we assume C is the Shadja, then we can build up the subsequent notes? ---
**Author:** ![gregeporter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/gregeporter/32/1277_2.png) [@gregeporter](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/gregeporter)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/11 "2021-05-10T02:18:49Z")
I think tonight, I’ll try building out a temporary variable list like you mentioned and then I’ll see how it sounds. I let you know what I find out and maybe I’ll share some code here and we can determine if it sounds right. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gregeporter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/gregeporter/32/1277_2.png) [@gregeporter](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/gregeporter)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/12 "2021-05-10T14:37:27Z")
Ok, what do you think of this? ``` sa = 60 #0 ra = 61 #1 ri = 62 #2 ru = 63 #3 gi = 63 #3 gu = 64 #4 ma = 65 #5 mi = 66 #6 pa = 67 #7 dha = 68 #8 dhi = 69 #9 na = 69 #9 dhu = 70 #10 ni = 70 #10 nu = 71 #11 live_loop :amen do sample :loop_tabla, amp: 2 sleep sample_duration(:loop_tabla) end use_synth :pluck 15.times do play (ring mi, gi, ru, gi).tick sleep 0.1 end 5.times do play (ring na+2, ni+2, nu+2, ni+2, na+2).tick sleep 0.25 end 5.times do play (ring pa, dha, nu, dha, pa).tick sleep 0.25 end sleep 1 13.times do play ma sleep 0.3 end 2.times do play ru sleep 0.3 play ma sleep 0.3 play mi sleep 0.3 play ma sleep 0.3 play ma sleep 0.3 play ma sleep 0.3 play ma sleep 0.3 play ru sleep 0.3 play ma sleep 0.3 play mi sleep 0.3 play ma sleep 1 end ``` I tried to pseudo-recreate the beginning of this song: https://www.youtube.com/embed/8nd5NLbUu44?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=PLCDA27B24BA28C8C9 But, to be honest, I used intervals to get it all in line 🤣 so, take that for what you will. ---
**Author:** ![hitsware](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@hitsware](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/hitsware)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/13 "2021-05-10T23:20:31Z")
> > Ok, what do you think of this? Sounds good ! … O.K. for Bollywood , but Ravi might be more like …??? ```ruby skale = ["sa ","ra ","ri ","ru/gi ", "gu ","ma ","mi ", "pa ", "dha ","dhi/na","dhu/ni","nu ", "SA "] numerator = [1,16,9,6,5,4,45,3,8,27,9,15,2] denominator = [1,15,8,5,4,3,32,2,5,16,5,8,1] # For sa = 440 Hz for i in 0..12 f=(numerator[i]*440)/denominator[i] puts skale[i],f,"Hz midi #",hz_to_midi(f) end ``` ![2021-05-10-153305_488x444_scrot](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/uploads/sonic_pi/original/2X/8/887bd1356da6a00e0fd981d26b07a3f6c77c5892.png) ---
**Author:** ![gregeporter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/user_avatar/in-thread.sonic-pi.net/gregeporter/32/1277_2.png) [@gregeporter](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/gregeporter)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 12:38pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/14 "2021-05-11T12:38:48Z")
That is some really impressive code, @hitsware; amazing job finding that chart and translating it. Where did you find it? I do like the sound of it more now too I feel like your code could be something that could be included in Note.rb to maintain a reference to those ratios. Heck, I’m definitely saving this thread for the purposes of keeping it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![hitsware](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@hitsware](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/u/hitsware)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/t/microtonal-musical-systems/5498/15 "2021-05-11T15:04:30Z")
Thank You ! > > Where did you find it? By the grace of Google 🙂 > > I do like the sound of it more now too Music is all in Your Mind … But that is where it counts !